In this post, I tried to answer some of the most frequently asked question regarding PF (Provident Fund) act. Hope this post will help you to get some of your concern regarding said Act. I would suggest that you should go through my post Fundamentals of PF act in India to get a fair idea about PF act first. I would appreciate if you share other queries in your mind through comment section so that I can add them in my upcoming post which will be continuation of this post.
FAQ 1 : Do employee joining a new company should be made member of PF, if he exceeds PF prescribed limit i.e. Rs 15,000/-?
This is most frequently asked question regarding PF. It actually depends upon some facts.
Below are some cases and action which should be taken:
Case 1: Employee was not the member of PF in previous company—In this case you can exclude him from PF eligibility, provided his Basic +DA is more than prescribed limit of Rs 15,000/- in your organization. In case employee still wants to be member of PF and both employee and employer agree then employee can also be made member of PF.
Case 2: Employee was member of PF in earlier company—In this case, you cannot exclude him from PF.
Case 3: Employee is fresher: In this case as there is not previous employer hence he was not member of PF ever, he can be excluded from PF.
Please note:
- You need to get Form 11 signed from employee, in which employee will give declaration about his membership in PF in previous company.
- Also company should have a policy in place to support above mentioned actions.
FAQ 2: Do we need to continue PF membership of employee whose wages become more than 15,000/- after increment?
An employee who is member of PF as his wage (Basic+DA) is less than or equal to 15,000 get increment and now his revised wage is more than 15,000, in that case, employee cannot be excluded from PF as he is already a member of PF. Hence he will continue to be member of PF.His PF contribution can be limited to 15,000 provided company policy allows that.
FAQ 3: Can an employer reduce wages of an employee, in relation to PF contribution?
As per PF Section 12, an employer cannot do so. But in case, employer is currently deducting PF on higher than prescribe limit of Rs 15,000/- and depositing the same to RPFC, in that case, employer can reduce and limit it to Rs 15,000/-.
FAQ 4: In my company, numbers of employees are less than 20. Can we also take volunteer PF Code and start contribution?
Yes. A company can apply for PF code even if the numbers of employees are less than 20. On reaching 20 or more, it is compulsory to take PF Code.
FAQ 5: There is some ambiguity whether to deduct PF on some of the salary components like arrear, Notice Pay, Leave Encashment etc or not?
We all are aware that PF should be deducted on Basic and DA. But we always have some ambiguity in terms of some components. Here are some clarifications:
PF deduction on wage arrears : Yes, PF should be deducted on arrear paid against component which fall under definition of wages.
PF deduction on Notice pay: No
PF deduction on leave encashment : No
PF deduction on pay for maternity benefit: Yes
Suspension Allowance : No
Special Allowance : there is an ambiguity in this case. Hence I would advise not to keep this as part of your salary structure.
FAQ 6: Principal employer is liable to pay Provident fund of contractual employee?
Yes, Principal employer is liable to pay Provident Fund in case contractor defaults in doing so, hence principal employer should ensure that contractor should have a PF code and contribute towards PF of his employee working for principal employer. In case of non availability of PF code in name of contractor, principal employer can make contribution in its PF code.
FAQ 7: Do Part time, Employee engaged through contractor, Trainee and Apprentice comes under PF act?
Part time employee : Yes
Employee engaged through contractor : Yes
Trainee : Yes
Apprentice under Apprentice Act : No
FAQ 8: Do education institutions comes under PF Act?
Yes
FAQ 9: Can I withdraw my previous company PF after joining some other company?
No, you can not. Although every next person changing the job withdraw PF of previous company but it is not allowed as per act.
A person can only withdraw PF, when the person is without job at the time of applying for PF withdraw and 2 months have passed. In fact, it is clearly mentioned in PF Withdraw form i.e. Form 19 also. Currently, PF Office doesn’t have mechanism to track people changing job and withdrawing PF but in future with e commerce in place, it won’t be possible for people withdrawing PF while changing the job. As per law, you are supposed to transfer your existing PF in your new company using Form 13.
FAQ 10: Can I withdraw money from PF in between? If yes, for which cases?
Yes, you can withdraw partial money from PF in following cases .
1. Marriage or education of self, children or siblings
- You should have completed a minimum of seven years of service.
- The maximum amount you can draw is 50% of your contribution
- You can avail of it three times in your working life.
- You will have to submit the wedding invite or a certified copy of the fee payable.
2. Medical treatment for Self or family (spouse, children, dependent parents)
- For major surgical operations or for TB, leprosy, paralysis, cancer, mental or heart ailments
- The maximum amount you can draw is 6 times your salary
- You must show proof of hospitalization for one month or more with leave certificate for that period from your employer.
3. Repay a housing loan for a house in the name of self, spouse or owned jointly
- You should have completed at least 10 years of service.
- You are eligible to withdraw an amount that is up to 36 times your wages.
4. Alterations/repairs to an existing home for house in the name of self, spouse or jointly
- You need a minimum service of five years (10 years for repairs) after the house was built/bought.
- You can draw up to 12 times the wages, only once.
5. Construction or purchase of house or flat/site or plot for self or spouse or joint ownership
- You should have completed at least five years of service.
- The maximum amount you can avail of is 36 times your wages. To buy a site or plot, the amount is 24 times your salary.
- Can be avail of it just once during the entire service.
FAQ 11: How to file RTI to get update on PF withdrawal or transfer status or PF balance?
You can get immediate answers to your grievances though RTI. You can refer below article to get more detail.
FAQ 12: What is VPF (Volunteer PF)?
You can contribute more than 12% of your Basic+DA in PF and get same interest on additional contribution. This is called VPF. Please note, employer need not to contribute the same amount in this case.
FAQ 13: What is EDLI (Employee Deposit linked Insurance)?
Very few people know that PF gives Life Insurance which is called EDLI. Contribution to EDLI is made by employer and employee does not contribute anything in EDLI. Employer need to contribute 0.5% of employee wage capped at 15,000/- per month to EDLI. Employee gets Life insurance coverage under EDLI.
Currently PF has increased maximum payout which is Rs 1.3 Lakhs in case of death. Click here to download the notification.
FAQ 14: Can Employer take insurance policy from insurance company to substitute EDLI?
Yes, Employer can take insurance policy to substitute EDLI.
Employer need to ensure that the benefits from insurance policy are much better than what employee can get from EDLI through PF. Eg. Sum insured in case of death should be more than 1.3 Lakhs. Employees of the company should be aware about it and should have no objection in this. You can approach any insurance company, which provide Group Term Life insurance.
FAQ 15: What is the interest we get on PF?
This keep changing and you need to keep an eye on such announcement from time to time. It is declared by Central Govt.
FAQ 16: Provided Fund contribution is taxable income?
No
FAQ 17: Do expats need to contribute to PF?
Yes. Please refer notification received from PF on 01st October 2008. Download the notification.
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268 comments:
1 – 200 of 268 Newer› Newest»How shoould a company join PFRDA where the number of employees are less than 20. Process for follow up if the staff at PFRDA is not taking interest and troubling with several requirements.
Many companies face problem in taking PF number voluntarily. Send me mail at my personal email id. I would suggest. Please share complete information like name of company, industry,Date of establishment, maximum number of employee till date in any month
Interesting facts and certainly useful reference blog for PF related stuff. Thanks for sharing
Dear Sir,
Its very informative, you covered it every important points in simple way.
I request if you do such points for other important acts like Bonus Act and Statutory compliance updation also will be helpful for every one.
Regards
Rajkumar.T
Dear Mr. Negi,
Please, Explain in detail about PF prescribed limit.
Please, Explain this policy of our company:
Basic+DA of employee is Rs 14000
But company is considering PF Wages Rs 6500 & contributing accordingly. is it right?
If the same employee works for 20 days then his actual basic+DA is Rs 10769 which is still more than Rs 6500 in this case should we contribute PF on Rs. 6500 or 6500/26*20= Rs 5000???
On Rs. 5000
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Nice topics covered on EPF. Good information Govind. Thanks for posting.
Hi Govind,
Thanks for the article. I have a query.
We are paying our staff under following heads.
Basic-4500
DA-1417
HRA-5500
Conveyance-4000
Management allowance-1726
Gross-17143
We consider basic+Da for PF deduction and paying the same to EPFO for the last 15 years..Now, we have been told by one of the official that we should consider all other heads apart from HRA and pay PF for those heads too.. Is it legally right as per the act? How should we avoid this?.. Shall we rearrange the salary structure now for all existing employees with basic+DA amounting to Rs.6500 and above and skip PF completely provided employees are ok with the same? Need your advice
regards
krish
Dear Krish,
Can i know what does Management allowance is for? Is there any policy behind Management allowance. Also why conveyance is Rs 4000/- and not any other amount. You should also refer my post on "Designing CTC structure".
It will be great if you post your query on HR SUCCESS Forum to get views from other HR Professionals. Link of the forum is http://hrsuccesstalk.com/forum/
Dear All,
My query is :--- Someone is a member of EPF and his basic is Rs 5500/- but after increment now his basic is 7000/- and now the person does not want to contribute in EPF and say according statutory obligation my basic is more than 6500/-. so i don't want to contribute in EPF.
So pls tell me as a HR Person what should i do and what is process in this case.
Thanks
Devesh Chaudhary
Dear Devesh,
It will be great if you post your queries on HR SUCCESS Forum. Link is http://hrsuccesstalk.com/forum/
In response to your query, any employee who is member of PF can not discontinue membership even if his Basic cross 6500/-. At max his and company PF can be limited to 6500/- i.e. max 780 both side.
hi sir,
please let me know if employee wants that his PF should be deducted but employers says no thn being an hr what answer should be given to employee
Dear Divay,
First of all there are some set of rules to which employer also cant say no. Eg. If employee's basic is less than 6500 or if a new employee who has joined and was member of PF earlier.
If above are not the case then employee can choose for VPF. For more queries request you to post your questions on HR SUCCESS TALK Forum which is designed for question answers only.
www.hrsuccesstalk.com
Sir,
In our company HR deduct the pf amount as 12% of basic salary..whether basic is less than 6500 or above...like I am getting 12000 basic salary per month and Rs. 1440 per month is deducting from my salary towards my contri in Pf...So my question is that it is legal to do or the max limit is 780 fixed?????? I'll get my all contri at the timing of withdrawal or will get according 780 per month?
Please help!!
Richa sharma
Dear Richa,
It will be great if you refer to www.hrsuccesstalk.com forum to ask and get answers.
Still to answer your queries, If company is already deducting PF on actual Basic like in your case then there is no problem in this and employee will get the same amount while withdrawing the PF and not capped at 780
Hi,
There is one query also.
A employee is contributing his PF according to PF norms, after one or more year employee got promoted and gets increment on his salary.Now employee don't want to contribute PF from his salary.
Is it possible for company that they delete his name from PF.
If Yes then what is the process?
Dear Nitin,
If you are already a member of PF then you have to continue being member. You can only restrict your PF contribution to 6500 depending upon your company policy.
Dear Govind,
Please advise, "food allowance" & "retaining allowance" are admissible under the head Wages for PF" ??
Thanks
Kuldeep Rawat
Dear Kuldeep,
It will be great if you post your query on HR SUCCESS TALK Forum.
Hello Mr. Negi,
One of our client recently had a PF survey - out of the several issues one such issue is about maintaining Computerised Muster Roll (Form V). the Department says they needs manual Form v book. The strength of the employees are around 200 to 250 and its a voluminous task. Though no specific ERP is in place currently. Have checked for any circular etc by the department on this but could not find. The EPF and MP act is silent on this...Let me know your views. Regards. Roopa
Dear Roopa,
PF Department has all right to ask for manual copy of Form V, if you have softcopy then take printout of it.
Dear Mr. Negi,
Indeed a very helpful post. My query is that if i withdraw my pf before joining the next company, am i liable to pay tax on the same?
Dear Mr. Negi,
It is a very helpful post. I have couple of queries regrading EPF which I am posting below. It will be great if you let me know your thoughts around those.
Job 1: Company A – period 2 years –Maintained by EPFO - Transferred to Job2
Job 2: Company B – period 2.1 years – PF no: - Maintained by EPFO Transferred to Job3
Job 3: Company C– period 2.8 years – PF no: - Maintained by EPF Trust
1.What will be my total service period based on EPF definition? Is it 6.9 years or 4.1 years as in company C the PF fund is maintained by EPF trust
2. If i withdraw my PF amount now will it be taxable or non-taxable?
3.I am planning to buy an apartment by mid of 2016 after completing my 10 years in my career. Say I bought an apartment costing 50 lakhs. Now as per bank home loan rule I could take a loan a maximum of 80% of the price. So can I pay the rest 20% by withdrawing the PF money at that time?
Thanks in advance for your help. Will wait for your reply.
Regards
Biswajit
Dear Friends,
As per my understanding NO
Dear Biswajit,
Your total service will be considered as 6.9 years including PF Trust contribution period.
For answer of your rest two queries, request you to post it on www.hrsuccesstalk.com
Dear Mr. Negi ,
Please tell me what happens to PF for a worker requiring frequent chage of jobs.
Dear Sunand,
You have to transfer your PF Fund from one PF account to another while changing the job.
HI,
I want to know if employer can deduct the amount he has contributed as employers contribution, at the time of FNF stating that it is cost of company and it has to be given back to organisation.
please reply me on reshma.farooki@gmail.com
Hi Sir,
I have resigned from my company(MNC) stating the reason as 'Higher Studies'. But due to some reason I could not make the admission. Now I am unemployed. I want to withdraw my PF amount. However my previous employer is asking for admission proof for the same. Please let me know 1) How can I withdraw my PF amount. 2) If not then will it be safe till next year as I am expecting new job till then.
Please guide me.
Thanks in advance.
Dear Mr. Negi,
I have resigned from my job last year after serving 6 years in the same company. I got to understand that company hasn't paid the PF amount since 2011. I am not able to get the amount and they are not signing on the application as well.
Please guide me. I am in urgent need of money.
Appreciate your early response.
Dear Aftab,
I would like to understand how do you know that they have not paid your PF. Now a days PF accounts detail are available online. Request you to go and check from their, about your PF contribution.
Request you to come back with these details and mention it in our HR SUCCESS TALK Forum i.e. www.hrsuccesstalk.com. You will surely get support from HR professionals there.
Dear Friend,
I dont think there is any reason your employer should ask for admission proof. You can very well wait for next year and transfer your existing PF in new PF Account in new company. For further queries request you to post your queries on www.hrsuccesstalk.com
Dear Govind,
I need your help regarding my provident fund. I was working with a pune based ites company. i quit the job in December 2011 to start my business. I am currently based in my hometown and not working anywhere. I am 30, i have not completed 10 years of my service. I would like to withdraw my pf without my employer's help. Should i submit form 19 only or form 10(C) or both? Kindly advice.
Regards
Dear Friend,
First of all, if you have completed 10 years of service then you are now entitled for pension hence you can withdraw your PF fund but not pension fund.
Also what is the reason to not to route it through employer?
i have discontinued my epf a/c because i have left the job and gone for higher studies. i have continued epf a/c for 6yrs. but from july 2012 i have not deposited any amount. if i will keep my money in a/c, whether i will get interest on that or not?
Dear Prabina,
As per new notification by PF, any PF Account where there is no contribution in last 3 years (this i recall), will not be entitled for PF interest.
Hello Mr. Govind,
Can you please guide if an existing employee with no PF facility wants to become member of PF then what will be the procedure.
Dear Shweta,
Such employer need to simply apply for PF Code. You can hire a consultant in your area to do so. They will charge nominal fee.
if previous employer was giving pf to an excluded employee (6500+ salary), under what law/case law is subsequent employer obligated to give pf?
if an employer is willfully making contribution to pf without statutory obligation, can he choose employees to whom the pf scheme should "not" apply?
Hello sir, I am already working in one company and have given interview in another company for part time and they too have PF and other facilities. I am just wondering; is it ok if I give my PAN number in the new company and they too deposit the amount on the same account which I have from previous employer, will there be any problem? Please help me sir. Thank you
I think my question can be summered as 'Can an employee have PF contribution from two Employers'?
Dear Friend,
Before that i think you should check your employment terms with current employer. Here you are talking about dual employment which is against law. Be Careful
Dear Friend,
I am not very clear on your question.
I understand that you are asking me about an employee whose PF is contributed by his current employer even though his wages is more than 6500 and what if he joins a new company. Do new company is obligated to contribute his PF? Answer is yes. Reason being he was member of PF and new company can not exclude an employee who was member of PF in earlier company irrespective of his Basic + Wages earlier or new.
Dear Govind ji ,
My query is on the employer side .
We are a partnership firm with more than 20 employees since last 4 years . But are not registered under EPFO. Never had deducted any employee PF contribution and hence had never deposited.
Now EPFO wants us to go back in history and pay for all non deducted full contribution of approx 25% per employee even for those whose salary is more than 6500 per month . We do not follow structured salary as Basic + DA . Its simply Salary + Incentives .
My questions :
1. What is our legal liability as no amount is being deducted from any employee .
2. Few historic employees are not present with us as of now and had already left the organisation.
3. EFPO is asking for a unreasonable legal as well as non documented settlement cost..
Would be grateful of your legal advice ..
Rgds
Thats true sir but I can't help my with one employment and hence need to know whether this is possible. I have a day shift and then 4 hours in the evening. Please help me sir.
There is no prob, you can have multiple acnts on 1 pan just ensure your company doesn't come to know about ur other emp:-
Dear Friend,
EPF has all rights to recover PF amount both contributions from employer if employer has not deposited the contribution from the date company falls under PF. Company should have also deducted and contributed PF for those employees whose basic+DA is more than 6500.
Please hire a consultant to handle this case.
Is there any section/para of the act/scheme which specifically mentions this?
Hello Sir,
I worked in an IT company for almost 3 years then changed the company 2 times in the preiod of just 3 months now I just want to know whether I can request for transfer my PF from all the 3 companies at the same time to my current company or I'll have to leave my last two companies PF(though the amount in last two companies will be very less due to short period of service). And how much time a person HAVE to claim for PF transfer after leaving the company?
Please guide.!!
Dear Rohit,
Ideally you should have transferred your PF From one company to next company at the time of joining new company. In your case, my suggestion is to transfer your first company PF to your current company PF. Reason : Amount is too less, Processing time is too much
This is the practice followed by industry and RPFC. Thats the reason every employee need to fill Form 11 to declare his previous company PF Status
i worked in a company in 2006 and resigned in 2007 .i want to take pf what is the procedure to apply now
Hi,
Request you to post your query on our HR Forum called HR SUCCESS TALK Forum.
Below is the link:
www.hrsuccesstalk.com
Hi Govind Sir, as per my offer letter, my company is saying from last 3 years that it is contributing in my PF. I am permanent employee however as per my latest offer letter, I've found that there is no contribution of my company in PM; actually, company is cutting that amount from my salary itself. I have found this now because my salary was too low, and now as my salary is increased, I was checking different sections and have found this. So I cross checked this with my previous offer letters and found that there was no company contribution, whatever amount deducted was from my own package. I am very small part of my organization and whatever salary given to me is very important and hence I read each and everything and hence I've found this. Could you please let me know how to go further with this? Do I need to inform my company or do I need to complain about this to someone because there are 6000+ employees in my company and I'm the only one who have noticed this last night; I've asked my colleague to check his offer letter too; however I need your help. My company is fooling employees. Thanks in advance.
Dear Friend,
There is nothing wrong in mentioning company contribution of PF in employee CTC.
Please share copy of your appointment letter at HR SUCCESS TALK Forum www.hrsuccesstalk.com for better clarity
Dear sir,
i am working in a construction company, as we provide wages weekly how can we deduct PF for them.1)Sometimes they will not be regular to the work 2) some workers come regular and drawn more than Rs.6500/- 3) New workers will be keep on appointing - for these people should we deduct PF?. Kindly clear me how can we deduct PF for construction workers if we pay wages weekly....
A member has already withdrawn his p.f.accomucation under otherthan para 69(1)a and c and join a new establishment on lumpsum salary of Rs.7000.Is he will become the member of pf or not.
PF is applicable for construction worker also.
You need keep two things in mind. What will be their monthly basic+DA, if they work for 26 days (multiple their daily wage with 26 days).
Then,
Deduct PF on actual Basic+DA earned in that month depending upon number of days they have actually worked
First of all it depends upon new company policy. If possible as per policy then such employee can be exempted from PF.
Although, it is not correct to withdraw PF within 2 months of leaving, if person joins a new company during 2 months
I work in Co. A for 3 years. I move to Co. B thereafter, but do not transfer my PF account. So I have 2 PF accounts. After 7 years, I withdraw my PF amount with Co. A. But Co. A deducts TDS [I have no work experience prior to joining Co. A] stating that my continuous service was not 5 years till I left Co. A. Why is Co. A not considering my future service? Can I claim refund?
Hello Sir,
I am Freshers and join MNC Technology Company but my company is not provide any P.F ?
Company hire me at Salary Basic 9700.
Company has more then 200 Employees.
Is that compulsory that all company provide P.F ?
Should i get benefit of P.F by any Ways in future ?
Dear Friend,
Your basic salary is more than 6500 and as you are a fresher hence you was not member of pf before joining this company.
I believe company can wish to not to deduct your PF. They must have got Form 11 signed from you.
Hence it is legal if company policy say so
Dear Friend,
I am not getting your query. How PF is related with 5 years service?
Ideally you should have transferred your Company A PF to Company B.
I understand that you have withdrawn your company A PF, then its fine. Where is the issue?
Dear Mr. Govind,
Thanks for taking time out to address my query.
My query and issue is regarding 'tax' on PF withdrawn.
I know I should have transferred PF from A to B. But I didn't. The amount remained with them for 4 years after I left them. So finally when I asked for a withdrawal, they gave me the money. But they deducted tax. According to them, I had only 3 years of total service (Co.A was my first job) when I left them and PF is taxable if there is less than 5 years of continuous service.
However, my contention is that I withdrew the money after 7 years. Moreover, there was continuity in service after leaving A. So why should it technically matter whether I transferred it to my new company or kept it at the previous company? The money was in PF account for 7 years.
So is Co A correct in deducting tax?
Alternatively, can I apply for a refund in my IT Return?
If I am making 1 lakh per month i.e100,000 per month , does it mean I have to pay 12,000 a month for PF if I join the PF scheme or do I just pay 12 % on the first 6,500 and nothing on the rest , if I don't want to ?
Dear Friend,
If your basic is 1 Lac then your PF Contribution depends upon company policy where you are. If company policy is to limit PF on Basic 6500 then your PF will be restricted to 6500 else on 1 Lac
How can company deduct Income tax on provident fund? I have never heard of it.
Yes they can. If a person withdraws his PF amount and he has NOT yet completed 5 years of continuous service (including previous employments wherein the amount from previous employers has been transferred to the current employer), then as per law this PF amount is taxable.
My problem was that I didn't transfer my amount. So technically speaking, going strictly by the wordings of the rules, Co. A was probably right in deducting tax.
Unfortunately the rules do not specify what happens if the PF money with the previous employer is neither transferred nor withdrawn.
Logically, it should not matter whether my entire money was with Co.B or part with Co.A and part with Co.B.
I am sure there would be many specific cases similar to mine. So I was trying to find out what has been the IT Department's ruling in such instances. I was hoping to file for a refund.
we can change basic & hra for regular deductor of pf
Hi,
Iam working since 6years in my current company.I had 5.5 years service in the previous company and when i switched to the current employer.I withdrew my PF amount.Now do i be eligible to withdraw my PF amount on the clause "Repayment of housing loan" .Or I am eligible only when i have completed 10 years in the current company??
Just to enrich the article, employer contribution to PF is taxable if it exceeds 12% of Basic + DA ( which is stutory limit).
Dear Sir,
I worked for 3+ years in my previous company (first company after graduation) and shifted to new organization. Am I eligible to withdraw PF amount? or I need to do PF transfer? pls suggest...
Hi..my company is 5 years old and we dont have any pf account..total no. Of employees are more than 20..all of the employees are getting salary over 6500..if I get form 11 signed from all the employee stating that we dont wish to deposit any anount in pf do we still need to deposit any amount as in pf of employee..all are freshers and dont have any pf account earlier.
dear sir what is the latest position on the issue. how did handle the problem? coz we are facing the same problem.
pls advice us
Dear Sir,
I went through the whole pf act and could not find the provision stating Rs. 6500 ad the maximum mandatory limit for pf deduction. Could you share the reference number of the respective section, circular or notification where the same has been specified?
Dear Friend,
It is mentioned in the bare act and as per industry practice. Simply, act do not force you to deposit contribution on more than 6500 hence it up to employer now
It will be better to take PF code number as number of employees in organization are more than 20. There should be on liability on you as all your employees' basic is more than 6500 and are freshers.
Dear Sunil,
Ideally you have to transfer your old pf account amount in new one.
Dear Friend,
Please hire a consultant to have a closer look at this case with all facts and figures and then advise. Sort out the issue asap. It will be better in longer run. More time gone, more problems
Even if it is so, company can not deduct any tax. It should be deducted by PF authority.
Co. A maintains Company PF Trust. So, legally speaking, the Company Trust has deducted TDS.
Hi Govind,
Regarding FAQ 3 on reducing basic wages, do you have any reference case law or notification?
Please post on HR SUCCESS TALK Forum
http://hrsuccesstalk.com/forum/index.php
Hi,
In case an organization is employing over 50 workers and they are all unskilled/ semiskilled, earning 7000 CTC per month, and the employees would rather get the PF money in hand than as a deduction, is there anyway the organization can continue to make the ESI contribution and no force PF onto the employees?
Hi,
We are not covering any employees whose Basic+DA is more than 6,500/- pm. Is it legally right (not to deduct the PF amount of employees whose Basic+DA is more than 6,500/-pm) without taking the consent of concerned employee. If these employees are willing to contribute & employer is not ready whether employer will be binding under PF act?. Is there any format to document the employees consent for not deducting PF?.
Company has to make PF contribution.
Dear Babu,
Please go through the FAQ mentioned in the post and various comments by readers. you will get answer of your query.
OK. Yes, in case of Company A maintaining PF trust, then employer need to abide by law laid down by PF. Hence tax deduction is correct
Dear Sir,
We have a case where the contractor has expired and his company dissolved. He could not make PF contribution for 1 month. We as PE want to make remittance on behalf of contractor. But EPFO says e-challan is required. We are not able to prepare it. What is the way out in such cases.
Dear friend,
Very unique case. Request you to post your query on HR SUCCESS TALK Forum. Link below:
www.hrsuccesstalk.com/forum
Hope other HR professionals should answer your query.
Hello Govind,
Hope you are doing great. You have a great grip of PF details.
I have a query. My company maintains a company trust PF account. And as per the process of employment I have to serve notice period of 90 days but it is not possible for me. I am serving this organization from the last 2.5 years. If I just leave the organization without a smooth exit will the company pay my PF or i will be empty handed.
Regards
Nisha
Dear Nisha, First of all, i always suggest that while leaving job employee should give proper notice period and if not possible, try to get acceptance from management on serving less notice period else it impacts employee today or tomorrow.
Also, note that PF transfer or withdraw is irrespective whether employee has given notice period or not. So you can transfer your PF to new PF Account.
Thanks Govind for your prompt reply.
I really do want to go on a good note but nothing is working out.
Thanks for your inputs.
Regards
Nisha
Dear Nisha,
All the best for your new assignment.
Dear Sir,
Pls answer my question
Can any establishment have more than one salary structure ?
If yes what are the possibilities ?
pls reply me.
Dear
Greetings of the day.
I also faced the same case in my company. our contractor was not deposited the contribution amount to PF then we made the remittance and made contract workers to have withdrawal benefits.
if in case contribution is paid, the e challan is available at employer e sewa.
you can communicate with PF office in regard to change of authorised signatory behalf of contractor.
any way have second opinion on this.
Dear Shanmukha,
Appreciate your inputs.
Dear Shanmukha,
If you mean different salary break ups then yes. Normally, company design a compensation policy for salary break up.
Request you to post your future queries on our HR Forum. www.hrsuccesstalk.com/forum
Hi Negi,
Your post is excellent. Request your views on the following:
In my previous job, the company and its employees (so me too) are registered under PF. In my new company, the management says that they will not open a PF account for me as my salary is on the higher bracket. (Though the company maintains a PF account and contribute equal amount towards employees earning less). Are they right in rejecting a PF account for me??
2. Do they have to contribute even if they agree to open one for me??
3. I started working in the new company even though I was under 1 month notice period in my earlier company. Only difference is I was released 10 days earlier with full notice salary. Did my taking up the new job is right?? The new company has not asked for release letter as well.
Dear Friend,
1. If you were member of PF in last company then you need to continue being a PF member in new company. New company has to enroll you.
2. Employer need to equally contribute to PF for employees who have PF Account.
3. Not clear. Do you mean to say that you were working with both companies at same time when you were serving your notice period to previous one. Then it is incorrect and falls under dual employment.
Hi,
You got it right with regards to point 3. I resigned from the former company. Was serving 1 month notice. In the meantime, the former company released me 10 days earlier than 1 full notice month (i.e. worked 20 notice days) and luckily got a new job within the notice 10 days. This way earned from both the companies. My query is whether my former or new company can come to know of it through PF rules/forms.
Secondly, what is the last date, if any, to get enrolled in PF account in
the new company.?
Thirdly, if the company does not open any account, can I continue to contribute to PF voluntarily. Will that give me tax benefit under 80C?? Will "continuous service" in regards to PF be counted if the new company does not enroll me for PF??
Will I not be able to see my account online if I am not enrolled in the new company for PF?
Lastly, Is PPF better than PF in your view??? Can anyone see their PPF details online as is in case of PF??
Dear Friend,
In case of PF Transfer both companies may come to know about your dual employment.
There is no last date. Company need to ensure its compliance from DOJ of an employee if employee falls under PF.
You can contribute volunteer PF and it will give your tax benefit.
Yes you can see data online.
PPF And PF have same facilities.
PPF online data, i am not sure. I think no
Hi Govind,
Do I have a option of not taking PF in the new company by filing form 11?? My Basic + DA is too high. This way in hand salary will reduce to a great extent..
I would still want to transfer some money to PF as voluntary contribution.. Will I be able to do that taking into account that I do not maintain a PF account with new company??? If yes, please explain how can I do that with old PF account??
What happens to the PF account that was opened by the earlier company?? Will it get deactivated/dormant??
HI Govind, Need your advice on PF withdrawl. 4 months back I resigned from Indian company and Joined a local company in US. When I approached my Indian company for withdraw they are saying i cannot withdraw as I worked with them for more than 9 yearss and i can only apply for Schema Certificate which we can encash after 58 years of age. Please advice whether is there any limitation like this for PF withdraw after working 9 years and moved to aboard.
Hi Govind, I work with an establishmnet which employs less than 20 people with everyone drawing more than the stated limit (6500/-pm). We now have some employees requesting the organization to obtain a PF code and initiate EPF contributions. But there are some employees who do not wish to participate in the scheme as well. In this scenario, can the company look at EPF contributions only from the employees who wish to opt for it, if the others sign off on the required exemption form? Would also like to share that some of the people who do not wish to contribute have been making PF contributions with their previous employer.
Dear Friend,
You can PF Code. Ideally you should include all of them under PF. It has to be driven by company policy. So you have to create a company policy and employees falling under this policy will become member of PF.
Please consult a local PF consultant to get PF code and further advise.
Dear Friend,
Please share exact duration of your services. Is it 9 years or 9 years some months.
Dear Friend,
PF membership is not in hand of employee. It depends upon whether you were member of member earlier or not and company policy.
Please speak with your company HR on volunteer PF.
Your PF account will be active but will stop earning interest if you there is no contribution in this account from last 3 years (not able to recall now, 3 years or 5 )
Hi, I had taken a break and now have joined same company again. Can I use my old PF account again?
Dear Sir,
If an employee has worked in a company under EPF and has left the job after 2 years. He later rejoins the company at wages more than Rs. 6500/- per month and doesn't want EPF deductions on his salary. Is it possible to do so if his EPF account has been closed and the balance taken out by him? If he doesn't have old EPF account active and signs form 11, can he be considered fresh employee?
Thanks.
Dear Friend,
As per your case it is possible to be out of the PF but it is not the correct way. Anyways go ahead.
Sure
Can you elaborate why it is not the correct way?
9 Years 5 Months
I am planning to take offtime from the current Job for 1 year with loss of pay. During this period the company doesnt pay any salary nor PF though i am still an employee. I heard that if the PF is not deposited for 2 consecutive months it gets locked. How is this handled if i join back the same company after 1 year.
Dear Friend,
As per rule, PF should be transferred to new company and not withdrawn.
No,its not like that
In that case, you are now eligible for pension scheme
Dear sir
i want to ask that i have resigned from my job for higher education few months back without giving notice period. so i am liable to pay the recovery amount to the company.
i just want to ask that can i allow the company to recover this amount from my PF amount and then settle the remaining PF amount to me?
Regards
jai asthana
Dear Jai,
This is not possible.
Dear Sir
We have recently received PF Code
Employer has informed that newly joining employees and drawing salary above 6500 PF will be made applicable after completion of one year of service.
Is it legally correct ? kindly guide.
Based on earlier posts if he has PF account with previous employer then it seems to be mandatory. In such case can employer say that he shall make contribution after one year. Pl guide
Regards
Dear Sir,
I have recently changed jobs and shifted to a new company which does not fall under EPFO Rules as the number of employees is less than 20. Can I withdraw my pf balance from my previous company ??
Yes, you can. Choice is yours
Dear Friend
You are correct. If an employee is already member of PF then you can not exclude him from being member of PF in your company. You can cap his PF contribution on 6500 But he should be made member of PF
Dear Sir,
An employee had worked in an organisation for 20 years till 2009 and left without withdrawing his PF and again if he rejoins the same company in 2013. will he become eligible for Non-Refundable PF loan (for repair of house) ?
Dear Sir
Thanks for reply. Your posts are very informative.
How do we go about for new employee (Non member EPF earlier )joining in and making him member after 1 year as employer wants to make him member only after completion of one year. In such case date of joining of employee is not the date of joining EPF
Pl Guide
Regards
It is technically wrong. Employee should be member of PF from date of joining. In case an employee was not member of PF earlier and now his basic is more than 6500 and company has a policy to include such employees in PF after an year then I dont see any problem in this if it is same for all employees on board.
Dear Friend,
I have no idea about it. Request you to post your query on HR Forum to get answers from other senior HR professoinals
if any one ex employee has skipped from a moth p.f. deduction what is the process to be paid her p.f .conurbation in p.f.
Dear Amit, You need to give more detail. Please mention does this employee still work, if no, when did he left and for which you skipped and reason of skip
Hello Mr Govind negi,
i just checked with my online PF funds and show a difference between the employer contribution and the employee contribution, For example if i am paying Rs. 1000/-
on behalf of my contribution then my employer pays Rs. 600/- as far as i know it is the equal amount that has to be contributed by the employer. please help me understand
Hello sir,
I'm working in a private IT company for last 3yrs and still working. The company started in 2007 with a registered name and currently have more than 35 IT employees[excluding canteen workers, hr and cleaning maids] . We have requested to the directors of the company to implement PF in 2011 they promised us to implement the same in next year ie 2012. In 2012 company directors said they don't have any proper attendance record so PF implementation will be delayed. Now they said they have implemented PF and since its starting stage rs 20/- will deduce from our salary and company will put other half 20. Sir could you explain Is PF is that much low. My salary profile start with rs 5000+ food,accommodation and currently its rs 21000 .Also one of my friend who worked in this company [currently resigned after 2yrs experience] want to know whether he can claim any benefit from the company.
Hi,
I had worked in my previous organisation for 5 months and 28 days, and almost 11500/- was been deducted as PF contribution from both Parties, Now I got only 8800/- as PF settlement and the employer is saying that as i have not served the company for 6 Months the pension amount wont be paid.
Do Reply, I am little bit confused
Dear Sidharth,
Yes they are correct
Dear Karan,
I see there is something wrong. I would request you to speak with your HR department and ask for clarification and come back with your HR feedback
Dear Friend, I dont see any reason for asking Rs 20/- from employee for previous PF contribution.
Also as far as your friend is concerned if he has not contributed anything in PF as on date then he can not claim any benefit
Dear Sir
Please advise on my query below:
My firend joined a company on 1 july 2010. the company voluntarily became member of epf from Jan 1, 2011 and contributions have been made since that date.
Now my friend wants to join another company which has less than 20 employees and no plan to join EPF. What should my friend do? can he continue to hold an account for 2 years so that 5 year rule is fulfilled for tax free withdrawl?. Please advise.
thanks Mehar
Dear Friend,
I would suggest that your friend should withdraw the money
Dear Mr Negi
Thanks for your prompt reply.
But if I understand correctly, she will have to pay tax on withdrawl. Is it not possible to hold till end of 5 years and avoid tax?
Where I am currently working i have completed 8 momths from MAY 2013 to jan 2014..Now i visited EPFO india govt site.where i found about Member portal and Downloaded my E-passbook.In that E-passbook ,which has data updated upto OCT,2013 , I found only three transaction of PF amount in this document. so when i am matching the amount wioth my pay slip provided by my employer so I found that transaction were made for three months only which were jun ,august and october only..for other months there was no entry for july,sept, but in this two month our pf was deducted as I found in pay slip. so what can happen to this amount? Did our employer has not deposited this two monts amount? IF not that what should I do to get deposited this amount by employer?
Please provide ionformation..
Dear Bunty,
As EPFO has launched this online portal few months back and still there are many entries which are not uploaded yet.
I would suggest you should speak to your HR Department and get information from them.
There could be chance that some entries are not uploaded by EPFO till date.
Hello Sir,
If in a company there are only 14 employees & the directors(owner) have one more company under the same management there are 8 employees.Than in this case is PF deduction required? As per rule there should be atleast 20 employees.
Companies under same management should be considered clubbed and PF becomes applicable.
if a company deducted PF of employee who's not working currently now company see that they deduct pf earlier but not deposited . now Is company have any option to not deposited the amount of PF
Hello Sir,
Please help me in calculating pf with the following figure:-
Basic -10834
HRA -5417
Conv -2167
Prof Allow -3249
Medical -1250
Travel -2083
Waiting for reply urgently.
Dear Friend,
It depends upon your company policy. If your company policy is to restrict PF on maximum 6500 Basic then PF will be 780 else it would be 12% of 10834
Hello Sir,
Thanks for ur prompt reply. I talked with my boss to have pf a/c. Now he is saying that the 12% of employer side is also deducted from employee salary & for this in new financial year with appraisals HR will draft the CTC accordingly. Please clear my this query too.
Dear Friend,
Employee side PF contribution can not be deducted from employee salary.
Hello Sir,
If contract labour work for one day then PF is mandatory or not?
Aman Ahmad
Yes
If an employee joins on a company on 22nd of the month, from which date onwards we have deduct the PF from their salary
IF AN EMPLOYEE JOINED IN A SOFTWARE COMPANY ON 22/08/2007 & RESIGNED ON 17/05/2012,
DO HE IS ELIGIBLE FOR GRATUITY ??
If joins from 22nd of the month then PF will be deducted from 22nd of that month for number days for which employee has worked.
F AN EMPLOYEE JOINED IN A SOFTWARE COMPANY ON 22/08/2007 & RESIGNED ON 17/05/2012,
DO HE IS ELIGIBLE FOR GRATUITY ??
Ans" In above case employee has not completed 5 years hence not eligible for gratuity
if employee's basic salary is more than 6500 and employer deducts the same then in which proportion he has to pay?
if employee's basic salary is more than 6500 and employer deducts p.f on the same then in which proportion he has to pay?
is their any provision under company law that if leave will be taken on behalf of marriage or maternity it will be pay bale ,if so at what percentage of salary
is their any provision under company law that if leave will be taken on behalf of marriage or maternity it will be pay bale ,if so at what percentage of salary
Dear Ashish,
If employee's basic is more than 6500 and company is deducting PF then it should be as per company policy whether they want to deduct on actual Basic salary or limit it to 6500
Hi,
I was working with a company for last two years. I have an EPF A/C with them. Now I have resigned and joined another company which does not have EPF facility. What are my options.
1. Am I eligible to close the A/C and withdraw the entire amount ? If YES then is it taxable ?
2. If NOT then can I maintain the A/C by depositing 24% of my basic each month by myself without intervention of my current and previous employer ?
Thanks in advance.
Regards,
RBhunia
Dear Mr Bhunia,
You can withdraw your PF And it will not be taxable.
Hello Sir,
I have heard that one can't nominate brother in PF. Is it true? If yes than why its so?
Dear Govind,
I am an employer and would like to know about these few points:
1. as we are contractors, we are established in various locations and work periods are normally between 1-3 years on each of these locations. The individuals working there are Normally released off from the job after the completion of their job.
Our these individual employees always withdraw their P.F soon after their full & final settlement from the job. However they are always re-recruited and are allotted a new P.F Number and this is an ongoing continuous procedure.
I want to Know that after withdrawing of the P.F, and after re-appointing these Labours, can we not deduct any P.F from these Labours/ Staff.
We are Paying way more than 6500.00 as a salary to our Labour/ Staff.
2. Please Guide with the Froms that are needed to be filled up for non-deduction of P.F of Employees also if we do not want to deduct the P.F, what are the basic requirements as per govt. norms.
Dear Sarita
As per PF act, Brother can not be nominated as nominee.
Dear Vijay,
Thanks for your appreciation.
Dear PIP Ltd,
If an employee before or at the time of joining company declares that he was never a member of PF in previous companies in Form 11 and his Basic salary is more than 6500 then company can decide to not to make him member of provident fund.
Please note that PF is now planning for Unique Provident Fund Number for each employee hence now cases where employee withdraw PF and re join and are allocated new PF will be captured. Every employee need to have a unique number during his employment in any company
Dear Govind
I was employed for two and half years before resigning. Now I am going for higher study. So I withdrew my PF account. Will it be taxable. I mean its less than 2 lac and I am having no other income source. But IT rules says any withdrawal before 5 years of service is taxable.So bit confused. Would there be a TDS??
just wanted to if employee P.F is not been deducted then now management want to deduct p.f what is the procedure and how the claim will be adjusted for the previous due deductions or starting new ?
Hello sir, i am working in a construction company, how should i deduct pf for workers monthly or weekly...(we give wages weekly) If an labour's his wages above Rs.6500/- need not to deduct pf for them... as the total salary will be known monthly only (i don't know how to calculate pf for construction workers )
Had a query:
In case employer want to pay the salaries of some of senior sales team members on the basis of target achieved by them. ie. if company achieves 60% sales members will be paid 60% of their salary in that particular month. If we make proportionate deduction monthly from basic, will their be a problem with the pf as some of these employees pf is based on their actual basic.
Secondly can we reduce the basic of senior employees who are in position of Manager/General Manager? Can we also reduce the pf contribution from 12% on actual basic to 780/-. Kindly advise.
Hi Govind, I am currently working in an mnc since last 1.8 yrs. now i am going to join a govt job. plz suggest me wt sud i do for my pf. shall i withdraw amount or shall i get my account transferred. Meanwhile another doubt can i have two pf account since i join govt thr i wll hv nw pf account.
Hi,
Is PF compulsory in NGO having less than 20 staff?
kindly clarify.
Thanks
Aparajita Mukherjee
Kolkata, West Bengal
how about loss of working day, if basic 8000, gross is 12000 and we pay epf upto 6500 and days of workingis 29 what amount will be diducted for PF, will be calculating as per 6500*12%=780 or 6500/30(month day)*29(working day)= 6283*12%
Please guide me on it.
Hello Mr. Govind
I am working with an MNC since almost 16 Years and in between company names is changed 2-3 times but last time in 2008 Company name is changed and a new pf a/c is opened and the previous a/c is been applied for transfers but unfortunately the agency with the company has forgotten to file transfer form of mine and last year when I inquired balance amount in EPF , I could come to know that my a/c is not been transferred and escalate it to My HR and eventually they have filed it again in September 2013 for transfers .
Now my query is I have read last year if an a/c is inoperative or not transferred for more than 3 Years EPFO will not credit any interest on so called suspense a/c and if that is the reality whose fault is this . It is HR who has to take care of these issues.
2. If a/c got transferred and merged to my new a/c , will I get credit of interest on entire a/c.
FYI ! I have downloaded my both EPF Passbook recently which is been updated till August 13 and the interest is been credited in both the a/c upto 31st March 2012 and are confused so, would like to have your opinion on it.
Hello Mr. Govind
I am working with an MNC since almost 16 Years and in between company names is changed 2-3 times but last time in 2008 Company name is changed and a new pf a/c is opened and the previous a/c is been applied for transfers but unfortunately the agency with the company has forgotten to file transfer form of mine and last year when I inquired balance amount in EPF , I could come to know that my a/c is not been transferred and escalate it to My HR and eventually they have filed it again in September 2013 for transfers .
Now my query is I have read last year if an a/c is inoperative or not transferred for more than 3 Years EPFO will not credit any interest on so called suspense a/c and if that is the reality whose fault is this . It is HR who has to take care of these issues.
2. If a/c got transferred and merged to my new a/c , will I get credit of interest on entire a/c.
FYI ! I have downloaded my both EPF Passbook recently which is been updated till August 13 and the interest is been credited in both the a/c upto 31st March 2012 and are confused so, would like to have your opinion on it.
Hello Sir,
Thanks for the information.
I have a small question.
I worked for more than 2.5 years in my previous company and had PF account. Now in my new company, I need to have EPF (My new company provides EPF and no PF).So its more than a year I have joined my new company. NOw when I ask them to create my EPF account, they say it can been created only at the time of joining and not in between.
Please let me know whether my is there any policy that we cannot create EPF in between. Your inputs and suggestions will help me alot.
iam working in company then company regularly cutting my tds on my salary but iam leaving company in 4 months then my salary income is not cross the limit of tax slab rate then can i take my tds refund
govind sir plz give me ur mail id
i want to know somthing about esic and pf.
kunwarjai2007@gmail.com
Jaideep Kunwar
Roorkee
Dear Jaideep,
You can ask your questions on our Forum at www.hrsuccesstalk.com/forum
Dear Friend,
I am assuming that your HR department or finance department has deducted your tax considering your complete financial year income which means after including your last 4 months salary your salary is falling under income tax slab.
If you are joining somewhere else on higher salary in that case you have to anyways pay this tax hence there is no point of asking for refund from your employer.
If you are not joining anywhere then you have claim refund from income tax while filling return as your company must have deposited this tax with IT against your PAN
Dear Dharmender,
When you would have joined the company, that point of time your basic must be more than 6500/- hence the reason your new employer might have kept you outside PF.
But,
As you were already a member of PF, your new employer should have created a PF Account for you at that time only.
Now it is only possible when company change its policy for all.
Dear Friend,
It is responsibility of employee and HR to transfer previous PF account to new account. Once transferred employee gets interest on complete PF balance in account.
Dear Rakesh,
If employee has worked for 29 days then PF will be calculated on 6500/30 *29
Dear Aprajita,
PF will not be applicable
Dear Jigyasa,
I dont have much of understanding of govt PF.
If there is an option to transfer please do go for transfer.
Dear Friend,
If you are paying PF on actual basic and pay basic arrear in any month then you should also deposit PF Arrear in that month.
You can limit PF contribution to 780 from 12% on basic after changing company policy. There is a clarification on such case. You can visit our HR forum to read more about it. Please do search.
www.hrsuccesstalk.com/fourm
Dear Pradeepa,
For daily wages employee you need to deduct pf as and when you make payments
Dear Srinivas,
Your company is liable for PF deduction from the day when company has 20 or more employees.
Your company need to apply for PF number from that day and deposit the pending PF both employee and employer side.
Hello Sir,
We have paid less amount for two months and we have found it later, how can we repay it now.
should PF be deducted on minimum wage or basic plz suggest
Dear Sir,
Is there any official G.O or circuller for PF Seiling amount rs 6500.00.
Please reply this..
In this case you can exclude him from PF eligibility, provided his Basic +DA is more than prescribed limit of Rs 6500/- in your organization. In case employee still wants to be member of PF and both employee and employer agree then employee can also be made member of PF.
The above mentioned is comes under which PF act.
Dear Friend,
If you have paid less amount for two months then you can simply pay it in current month. But question is how you paid less amount?
PF should be deducted on Basic +DA.
But it is advisable to pay PF on minimum wages of state. Make Basic +DA as minimum wage of state
If minimum wage of state is more than 6500 then PF can be restricted to Rs 6500.
Dear Future Eye,
We have yet not received any notification from increase in PF ceiling limit.
Dear friend,
If an employees Basic +DA is more than 6500 and both employee and employer agrees to make such employee part of PF then it is possible.
But note that you need to make such policy for all employee and not for one employee
i receive my first salary slip tomorrow company doesnt mention pf account number but the deduct my pf
how to know company have open pf account for me or not?
I was working in a small company less than 20 employees are working there. In that company is not provided any PF benefits to the employees. I was working in that company for around 6 years. Now I wants move this company. Is there any cash benefit (like PF) I can get it from this company?
Job 1: Company A – period 4.6 years –Maintained by EPFO - Transferred to Job2
Job 2: Company B – period 3.7 years – PF no: - Maintained by company own Trust
Now total money is in (Company B )PF account. And in Company B showing no.of years maintaining in PF account is 8.1Yrs (Comapny A+Company B)
I want to change to Job3 and want to withdraw the amount from Company B. Now my question is in Company C maintain PF account and the years of membership in PF account will continue(8.1Yrs+no. of Yrs in Company C) or it will start from 0Yrs ?
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